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	<title>Comments for Doing It Wrong</title>
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		<title>Comment on CrossFit: Forging elite fitness&#8230; at what cost? by Otto</title>
		<link>http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/crossfit-forging-elite-fitness-at-what-cost/#comment-80</link>
		<dc:creator>Otto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 05:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-80</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s face it, Crossfit can do whatever they want. If they want to make a video of girls working out in thongs, and the girls are ok with being exploited/objectified/used to attract men to the facility, then nothing is going to stop them. However, it is also the above blogger&#039;s right as a potential client to raise her objections, and make the company aware of a potential issue of which they might not be aware. 

Yes, sexism and racism exist, and differences in behavior, body type, dna, etc. all contribute to our ability (or lack thereof) to survive as a species. But while we have instinct, we also have the ability to adapt to environmental changes, as well as the ability to empathize and think about complex issues. It&#039;s not enough to simply say that we are slaves to our dna and move on. We can think and reason as well. 

If a nice looking girl comes into my gym, do I look at her? Of course! But I don&#039;t stare at her to the point where she becomes uncomfortable. I have empathy, and would not want to intentionally make another person feel uncomfortable. Yes, men are still men and women are still women, but if you look at the video, I can see why the author would have reservations about the club- this is the part that guys aren&#039;t getting. A girl who thinks about coming to crossfit might be in good shape like these women, but chances are she&#039;s trying to get into shape and might not feel so tip-top about her condition. Hell, I&#039;m not in the best shape of my life, and if all I saw in crossfit videos were shirtless, ripped guys in ridiculous shape, I&#039;d probably feel less inclined to go there too. But I see plenty of regular Joes doing the crossfit programs, which makes me more inclined to consider going. Seeing videos of women that are in freakishly good condition being filmed in slow-mo in an overtly sexually charged way (sanctioned by the crossfit website) is not necessarily a motivating force for an aspiring female member. If they see other normal looking women there then they would probably feel more comfortable about going. Or even if they showed fit women just working out with guys in a normal way it could be motivating, but they are showing them in an objective way, with &quot;club/stripper pole&quot; music and slow mo closeups of body parts. Is this all of the videos? No. But the author is pointing out what she noticed to crossfit because they are the ones who set the tone for their clubs, and they control the content.

Let me try to paint the author&#039;s point in a slightly different light. Let&#039;s consider a club that trains sprinters. Now, history has shown that ON AVERAGE, the black sprinter is faster than the white sprinter. Look at the top 10 sprinters in the 100m every year and the numbers don&#039;t lie. What do the numbers mean?  Well that&#039;s a different issue altogether. 

But what if, in an effort to motivate black runners, they put them up against the fastest white sprinters only, who might be very fast indeed, and maybe even some of the fastest. However, the reason for doing this was to motivate the black sprinter, because if he can&#039;t beat the white sprinters, then the implication is that he certainly has room to improve (since on average the best sprinters are black). Is this any different than trying to manipulate the ego of a man by pitting him against a woman?  I must admit that in a physical scenario, if a woman is able to do something better than me physically, there is an immediate visceral reaction that takes place. I might feel a little emasculated and guilty for letting myself go. It&#039;s not something that I can even necessarily control. But manipulating this and using women to do it is an entirely different ballgame, and shows a lack of sensitivity.

So how do you think the white male sprinter would feel about being used in this way? I&#039;ve can imagine it would be quite invalidating. As men we aren&#039;t thinking of it this way because we&#039;re men. What if they split up the results into two categories: white and black? Do you think the white guys would have a problem with it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s face it, Crossfit can do whatever they want. If they want to make a video of girls working out in thongs, and the girls are ok with being exploited/objectified/used to attract men to the facility, then nothing is going to stop them. However, it is also the above blogger&#8217;s right as a potential client to raise her objections, and make the company aware of a potential issue of which they might not be aware. </p>
<p>Yes, sexism and racism exist, and differences in behavior, body type, dna, etc. all contribute to our ability (or lack thereof) to survive as a species. But while we have instinct, we also have the ability to adapt to environmental changes, as well as the ability to empathize and think about complex issues. It&#8217;s not enough to simply say that we are slaves to our dna and move on. We can think and reason as well. </p>
<p>If a nice looking girl comes into my gym, do I look at her? Of course! But I don&#8217;t stare at her to the point where she becomes uncomfortable. I have empathy, and would not want to intentionally make another person feel uncomfortable. Yes, men are still men and women are still women, but if you look at the video, I can see why the author would have reservations about the club- this is the part that guys aren&#8217;t getting. A girl who thinks about coming to crossfit might be in good shape like these women, but chances are she&#8217;s trying to get into shape and might not feel so tip-top about her condition. Hell, I&#8217;m not in the best shape of my life, and if all I saw in crossfit videos were shirtless, ripped guys in ridiculous shape, I&#8217;d probably feel less inclined to go there too. But I see plenty of regular Joes doing the crossfit programs, which makes me more inclined to consider going. Seeing videos of women that are in freakishly good condition being filmed in slow-mo in an overtly sexually charged way (sanctioned by the crossfit website) is not necessarily a motivating force for an aspiring female member. If they see other normal looking women there then they would probably feel more comfortable about going. Or even if they showed fit women just working out with guys in a normal way it could be motivating, but they are showing them in an objective way, with &#8220;club/stripper pole&#8221; music and slow mo closeups of body parts. Is this all of the videos? No. But the author is pointing out what she noticed to crossfit because they are the ones who set the tone for their clubs, and they control the content.</p>
<p>Let me try to paint the author&#8217;s point in a slightly different light. Let&#8217;s consider a club that trains sprinters. Now, history has shown that ON AVERAGE, the black sprinter is faster than the white sprinter. Look at the top 10 sprinters in the 100m every year and the numbers don&#8217;t lie. What do the numbers mean?  Well that&#8217;s a different issue altogether. </p>
<p>But what if, in an effort to motivate black runners, they put them up against the fastest white sprinters only, who might be very fast indeed, and maybe even some of the fastest. However, the reason for doing this was to motivate the black sprinter, because if he can&#8217;t beat the white sprinters, then the implication is that he certainly has room to improve (since on average the best sprinters are black). Is this any different than trying to manipulate the ego of a man by pitting him against a woman?  I must admit that in a physical scenario, if a woman is able to do something better than me physically, there is an immediate visceral reaction that takes place. I might feel a little emasculated and guilty for letting myself go. It&#8217;s not something that I can even necessarily control. But manipulating this and using women to do it is an entirely different ballgame, and shows a lack of sensitivity.</p>
<p>So how do you think the white male sprinter would feel about being used in this way? I&#8217;ve can imagine it would be quite invalidating. As men we aren&#8217;t thinking of it this way because we&#8217;re men. What if they split up the results into two categories: white and black? Do you think the white guys would have a problem with it?</p>
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		<title>Comment on CrossFit: Forging elite fitness&#8230; at what cost? by mike</title>
		<link>http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/crossfit-forging-elite-fitness-at-what-cost/#comment-79</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 05:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-79</guid>
		<description>I loved the way you took such a rational leap in explaining how the sexist attitudes derived from right wing politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved the way you took such a rational leap in explaining how the sexist attitudes derived from right wing politics.</p>
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		<title>Comment on CrossFit: Forging elite fitness&#8230; at what cost? by MizFit</title>
		<link>http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/crossfit-forging-elite-fitness-at-what-cost/#comment-72</link>
		<dc:creator>MizFit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 10:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-72</guid>
		<description>I really need to try this and see what my experience is.

Ive been curious for so long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really need to try this and see what my experience is.</p>
<p>Ive been curious for so long.</p>
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		<title>Comment on CrossFit: Forging elite fitness&#8230; at what cost? by Cody Mitchell-Chavez</title>
		<link>http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/crossfit-forging-elite-fitness-at-what-cost/#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator>Cody Mitchell-Chavez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-71</guid>
		<description>As I read your log entry, I couldn&#039;t help but think, &quot;Who cares what you think.&quot; Crossfit is privately public. If you disagree with the culture behind it, then don&#039;t be involved. Make your own politically correct version if you truly think there is a demand for it. Also, what sexism you are seeing in crossfit is not unique from everyday life. If you were to post about every bikini carwash, dance club theme, or fashion statement, you would never be able to stop typing.

What you should get from crossfit is how inclusive it is to women. Never before have I witnessed such a fitness mentality (Crossfit isn&#039;t really a program as much as it is a state of mind) that included women to do what the men do. Women doing full scaled burbees, squats, and muscle-ups are as inclusive as I have ever seen. Women who Crossfit are not given outs, they are not excused from the overall goal; “forging elite fitness.”

Maturity rates and hormones have guided the growth of the two sexes in all animals, and for good reason. Diverse sex based features have enabled us to survive, but can arguably be the foundation of society. Without fragility, beauty, or lust do you really think we would have the arts and societies we have today?  Crossfit is honest with humanity in its celebration of the beauty of the human body.

http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/Gillian_Kallista_StagHS.html

I have to agree with you, women are the target of a lot of sexual advances, but to oust Crossfit as a champion in the matter is unwarranted and ignorant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I read your log entry, I couldn&#8217;t help but think, &#8220;Who cares what you think.&#8221; Crossfit is privately public. If you disagree with the culture behind it, then don&#8217;t be involved. Make your own politically correct version if you truly think there is a demand for it. Also, what sexism you are seeing in crossfit is not unique from everyday life. If you were to post about every bikini carwash, dance club theme, or fashion statement, you would never be able to stop typing.</p>
<p>What you should get from crossfit is how inclusive it is to women. Never before have I witnessed such a fitness mentality (Crossfit isn&#8217;t really a program as much as it is a state of mind) that included women to do what the men do. Women doing full scaled burbees, squats, and muscle-ups are as inclusive as I have ever seen. Women who Crossfit are not given outs, they are not excused from the overall goal; “forging elite fitness.”</p>
<p>Maturity rates and hormones have guided the growth of the two sexes in all animals, and for good reason. Diverse sex based features have enabled us to survive, but can arguably be the foundation of society. Without fragility, beauty, or lust do you really think we would have the arts and societies we have today?  Crossfit is honest with humanity in its celebration of the beauty of the human body.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/Gillian_Kallista_StagHS.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/Gillian_Kallista_StagHS.html</a></p>
<p>I have to agree with you, women are the target of a lot of sexual advances, but to oust Crossfit as a champion in the matter is unwarranted and ignorant.</p>
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		<title>Comment on CrossFit: Forging elite fitness&#8230; at what cost? by Ethan</title>
		<link>http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/crossfit-forging-elite-fitness-at-what-cost/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-70</guid>
		<description>Dude, Jesse. You rock.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dude, Jesse. You rock.</p>
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		<title>Comment on CrossFit: Forging elite fitness&#8230; at what cost? by Jesse</title>
		<link>http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/crossfit-forging-elite-fitness-at-what-cost/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:19:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-69</guid>
		<description>As a Crossfitter for some time, to tell you the truth I have not seen this. Now that you mention it I do see how calling someone a &#039;pussy&#039; could be insulting to a woman even if not intended. I understand that this may be an underpinning that makes you question what the men think about  the women they are interacting with.

That said I have a few comments. One this is gym culture. Coach is a coach and uses cues that people identify with. If you don&#039;t like the cues it is a larger problem than just coach. the cues work because it is ingrained in society. The best coaches find the most effective cues and use them. I guess this commentary could assure you that &#039;pussy&#039; is a pervasive in our society. I would say coaches use of the word is not helping anything but he is not an activist, his focus is human performance.

Second men typically are stronger for a variety of reasons. I am not the most knowledgeable person to back this up but it has to do with hormonal levels, neurological development and ability to actually display their theoretical maximum effort. The getting beat buy a girl is a cue and an awesome display of what is possible. It is a testament to the training of these women that they can have a disadvantage and still beat men that may have the advantages not afforded women.

This brings up a question that I always have for feminists. Why is the fact that men and women are different such a problem for you? Different  can survive with out a value assessment. I love and honor women, mostly because they are different than me. They have capacity that far exceed my own and I am amazed and awed by this. 

In regard to the &#039;boobs&#039; comment. Yes this humans are obsessed with looks, especially the men. The fact that men like a specific hip to waist ratio is rooted in their DNA. It is a visual marker that a woman is fit for child bearing. Large breasts indicate sufficient fat reserves to carry a child to term and then nurse the child. In the past men that desired mating with women that did not display these traits got phased out of the breeding stock as they did not pass genes along. 

I guess that I see your points but obviously feel much less strongly than you about them. I am not sure that you are attacking the right foes though. I really do support you though and wish you the best.

Jesse</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Crossfitter for some time, to tell you the truth I have not seen this. Now that you mention it I do see how calling someone a &#8216;pussy&#8217; could be insulting to a woman even if not intended. I understand that this may be an underpinning that makes you question what the men think about  the women they are interacting with.</p>
<p>That said I have a few comments. One this is gym culture. Coach is a coach and uses cues that people identify with. If you don&#8217;t like the cues it is a larger problem than just coach. the cues work because it is ingrained in society. The best coaches find the most effective cues and use them. I guess this commentary could assure you that &#8216;pussy&#8217; is a pervasive in our society. I would say coaches use of the word is not helping anything but he is not an activist, his focus is human performance.</p>
<p>Second men typically are stronger for a variety of reasons. I am not the most knowledgeable person to back this up but it has to do with hormonal levels, neurological development and ability to actually display their theoretical maximum effort. The getting beat buy a girl is a cue and an awesome display of what is possible. It is a testament to the training of these women that they can have a disadvantage and still beat men that may have the advantages not afforded women.</p>
<p>This brings up a question that I always have for feminists. Why is the fact that men and women are different such a problem for you? Different  can survive with out a value assessment. I love and honor women, mostly because they are different than me. They have capacity that far exceed my own and I am amazed and awed by this. </p>
<p>In regard to the &#8216;boobs&#8217; comment. Yes this humans are obsessed with looks, especially the men. The fact that men like a specific hip to waist ratio is rooted in their DNA. It is a visual marker that a woman is fit for child bearing. Large breasts indicate sufficient fat reserves to carry a child to term and then nurse the child. In the past men that desired mating with women that did not display these traits got phased out of the breeding stock as they did not pass genes along. </p>
<p>I guess that I see your points but obviously feel much less strongly than you about them. I am not sure that you are attacking the right foes though. I really do support you though and wish you the best.</p>
<p>Jesse</p>
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		<title>Comment on Quick Hit: Heelarious by Lori</title>
		<link>http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/quick-hit-heelarious/#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>Lori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 07:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/?p=14#comment-68</guid>
		<description>I have seen these shoes at a sales show and they are not real heels! It is totally cute and its just decorative like a bow you would put on your baby girl&#039;s head. Its not to get girls to start wearing high heels early its just something cute!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have seen these shoes at a sales show and they are not real heels! It is totally cute and its just decorative like a bow you would put on your baby girl&#8217;s head. Its not to get girls to start wearing high heels early its just something cute!</p>
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		<title>Comment on CrossFit: Forging elite fitness&#8230; at what cost? by &#8220;Open Season&#8221; for &#8216;Peeping Toms&#8217;; or, musings on &#8220;privacy&#8221; &#171; don&#8217;t ya wish your girlfriend was smart like me?</title>
		<link>http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/crossfit-forging-elite-fitness-at-what-cost/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8220;Open Season&#8221; for &#8216;Peeping Toms&#8217;; or, musings on &#8220;privacy&#8221; &#171; don&#8217;t ya wish your girlfriend was smart like me?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 07:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-67</guid>
		<description>[...] I recently read a post from a blogger and Crossfitter who was irked by the rampant sexism on the site. If you go to the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I recently read a post from a blogger and Crossfitter who was irked by the rampant sexism on the site. If you go to the [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on CrossFit: Forging elite fitness&#8230; at what cost? by Gretchen</title>
		<link>http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/crossfit-forging-elite-fitness-at-what-cost/#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator>Gretchen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 04:07:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-65</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Jason. It&#039;s always good to have some support :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Jason. It&#8217;s always good to have some support <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on CrossFit: Forging elite fitness&#8230; at what cost? by Jason</title>
		<link>http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/crossfit-forging-elite-fitness-at-what-cost/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 01:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doingitwrongblog.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-64</guid>
		<description>Just wanted to say I saw your post on the discussion of the Glory Box video, clicked over here, and couldn&#039;t agree more, re: objectification et al.

I think Crossfit as a training regime is amazing -- I think the sexism the permeates some of it flows from the general right wing puerile underpinning of some of the politics of the people.   Good science (i.e., Crossfit&#039;s approach to fitness) doesn&#039;t necessarily equal good politics.  It is annoying.   And it undermines the community workout aspects of the whole thing.

OTOH, there is also celebration of women and their abilities and a rejection that women are supposed to &quot;tone&quot; their muscles, etc.   But that still takes place in an overall framework that&#039;s messed up, as you identify above.

Anyway, thanks for the post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wanted to say I saw your post on the discussion of the Glory Box video, clicked over here, and couldn&#8217;t agree more, re: objectification et al.</p>
<p>I think Crossfit as a training regime is amazing &#8212; I think the sexism the permeates some of it flows from the general right wing puerile underpinning of some of the politics of the people.   Good science (i.e., Crossfit&#8217;s approach to fitness) doesn&#8217;t necessarily equal good politics.  It is annoying.   And it undermines the community workout aspects of the whole thing.</p>
<p>OTOH, there is also celebration of women and their abilities and a rejection that women are supposed to &#8220;tone&#8221; their muscles, etc.   But that still takes place in an overall framework that&#8217;s messed up, as you identify above.</p>
<p>Anyway, thanks for the post.</p>
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